At Greenport, NY, June 1954:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?a ... June54.jpg

I just checked the Railroad Museum of Long Island website before posting this comment.

While I realize that any steam locomotive restoration has a lot of mundane work, with a lot being done but no "visible" progress. This project has been very quiet since the boiler was removed. Are there any surprises? Is $800 Grand enough? I saw bad parts of the firebox along the mudring when I last saw no. 39 in autumn of 2003. Are the frame, wheels and running gear all right?

Enquiring minds want to know... I want to know!

LIRR #39 hold a special place in my heart, as my father was the Track Supervisor who moved it from storage to the museum where she stood for 25 years.

The locomotive is still disassembled, and while much of her running gear has been cleaned and oiled, the boiler remains at the repair shop. RMLI is tight-lipped regarding development on that front, and were they a bit more giving with information, the solutions might present themselves sooner. Other parts of the locomtive restoration which were delegated to museum personnel, like relining the cab with wood, have not been touched, which doesn't bode well in appearence for the project. The tender is completed and back on the property, ready to be mounted and used. I fear that like all renovations, when you get under the paint, LIRR 39 may have PRR 1361 problems. Until RMLI tells us something, it's just a guess.

Between 1977 and 1980, I was involved with Main Line Steam Foundation, a New Jersey Group that had operated FEC 148 on a couple of trips on the LV and CNJ-NY&LB. MLSF's management (Jack and Bob Emerick [High Iron Co] and Larry Cohen [NHIR and other tourist roads]) started working with Ron Ziel and formed "Project 39". That group obtained a $100,000 grant from the Suffolk County legislature for the engine. I was involved in (among other things) a "hydro-in-the-park", performed on #39 at the Carriage House Museum in Stony Brook. A local fire dept brought a pumper and we got to see how bad the firebox/wrapper sheet was.

PRR Belpaire fireboxes are wonderful designs for holding water on the broad, flat top of the wrapper sheet. This one sat under a few trees, and had the jacket and lagging on it for years. The cab roof hatch had been left open for a long time, too. Many of the flexible staybolt caps on the top of the wrapper were no longer intact. There was extensive rust damage to the wrapper sheet ahead of the cab, and extensive rust damage to the left vertical corner on the backhead, in the cab.

We knew at that point #39 would need some significant wrapper sheet repairs, possibly pad-welding would do at a minimum. There was the other usual boiler work anticipated--- a full set of tubes and flues, and a full set of superheater units, and partial side sheets in the firebox.

In early 1980, we arranged with a housemoving firm to jack the loco off its drivers and lead truck, and move the engine about 25 miles by road to Riverhead. The drivers were taken by truck to Amtrak's Wilmington Shops so that they could be turned-- the brake shoes had been welded to the driver tires (and rather poorly, too). With the almost new driver tires that were on #39, turning off 1/2 inch would have gotten rid of any heat-affected zone at the crummy welds, and still left plenty of tire thickness.

I have watched the 39 project from afar for the last 20+ years, and I look forward to seeing her run. It would be nice to know more details about what's going on. She's a nice big engine, kind of a "sawed-off-K4".

Gentle Readers,

We at the Railroad Museum of Long Island appreciate your continued interest in the restoration of LIRR Engine 39. I’ll try to give everyone a thumbnail of where we are and what we have to do as we enter 2007.

First, an explanation.

Richard writes:
“RMLI is tight-lipped regarding development on that front, and were they a bit more giving with information, the solutions might present themselves sooner.”

Personally, I regret that we haven’t been able to give regular updates on the project since the locomotive moved off our property in May 2005. The answer is elementary though. It was made clear to us right after the contractor started work that this is a Suffolk County Department of Public Works Project. The County of Suffolk is the official sponsor of the Federal ISTEA grant and the Commissioner of Public Works and only the Commissioner will issue reports and announcements related to the Project.

Boiler/firebox work continues at the contractor’s shop in Medford, NY. As long as the boiler/firebox is off Museum property it is the purview of the Suffolk County Commissioner of Public Works.

With that said, I do feel free to discuss what is publicly obvious and what may be openly observed at the Museum’s restoration site.

Richard writes:
Other parts of the locomotive restoration which were delegated to museum personnel, like relining the cab with wood, have not been touched . . .

Howard P's recollection of the 1980 assessment is quite good and valid to this day. Those issues are being addressed.

The tender has been restored and was returned to the site this summer. It sits on wood cribbing at the moment as her trucks still have maintenance work to be done on them by the Museum. We won’t mount the tender until that work is complete.

39’s frame has been raised, her front pilot has been moved forward and the journal boxes have been inspected. Due to years of sitting and lack of lubrication, the brasses have been marred and need to be resurfaced. A set of air jacks have been requested, on loan, from the Friends of Engine 35 to further lift and stabilize the frame to gain access to the boxes. The drive wheel axle surfaces will be tended to also.

Installation of the wood interior on #39’s cab has been deemed a low priority until work on the drive train is in hand.

To complete necessary work on the drive train and install the oil fired burner, we estimate a cost of $150,000.00. This expense is not assignable to the ISTEA grant and the Museum is actively looking for additional funding to get this work completed before the boiler/firebox returns to Riverhead.

Richard comments: solutions might present themselves sooner . . . The great elixir on this project, as with all rail preservation/restoration projects, is CASH. Money to hire skilled craftsmen to do the work and money to purchase material necessary to perform the work.

The Railroad Museum of Long Island continues to move forward on this and its other projects. We welcome your good wishes and comments. Information leading to sources of funding are always appreciated. Please be assured the lack of announcements in no way reflects a lack of effort and determination on behalf of the Museum to realize its vision of #39’s full restoration. We look forward to steady progress in 2007.

de Don Fisher
n2qhvRMLI
www.rmli.org

Don is probably the most forth-coming of the RMLI people. It's good to see an official report on the G5s from someone "in the know". My only other reflection would be the old quote, "By their works, ye shall know them". Let us hope we get to know this restoration effort significantly better in the next year.

For those who are not aware of it, both steam locomotives used in the end of steam ceremonies on Long Island, are preserved, and both are disassembled at the moment. With regard to RMLI's G5s, #39, not only is the steamer preserved, but the RS3, #1556, and both coaches used in the exchange of the Boy Scout passengers at the conclusion of service. All of these pieces need heavy restoration due to corrosion, weather, and idleness.

"Friends of #35", now "The Oyster Bay Railroad Museum", has the G5s and similarly, both coaches. The RS3, #1555, is still in existence, but not owned by the group, and in very, very, poor shape, having been partially disassembled for restoration in Florida, when hurricane came through. I do not know her current status, but I believe she is destined to become a parts resource for a WM group.

How many groups can boast of the whole "End of Steam" accessories remaining in existence?

Thank you Richard,

For your kind words. I like to celebrate and share every success the Railroad Museum of Long Island accomplishes, and in my ten years as a member we've celebrated many.

The Engine 39 restoration has been a long and arduous project. There are so many nay-sayers that post, write, and stop by the Museum to comment, that it is easy to hang a head and be discouraged. As a public servant in a school district for thirty-nine years, I have come to appreciate the machinery of bureaucracy, I am more understanding of the time it takes Government to do something than others in my avocation.

That said, I still have an optimistic outlook toward the completion of Engine #39. I am even quietly optimistic that #39 will run between Riverhead and Greenport one day.

I am pleased with the Blue Ribbon group of craftsmen and professionals assembled to restore #39. Rob Mangles, our RMLI Project Manager is a national figure working on many fine locomotives and railcars throughout the country. Linn Moedinger, Kelly Anderson and their staff from the Strasburg Railroad Company are consultants to the contractor on this project and the contractor, Boiler Matic Industries is well known for their public works projects on Long Island. Mike Monaghan, our lead engineer from the Suffolk County Department of Public Works, is an enthusiastic supporter of the Museum and our efforts to return steam to Long Island. The project enjoys support from the Suffolk County Legislature and our County Executive Mr. Steve Levy.

The restoration will move along, albeit slowly. We at the Museum seem to have more qualified carpenters and woodworking volunteers than metalworkers and machinists. (As evidenced by our beautiful full restoration of wooden LIRR Caboose #14) Thus the slow movements on our frame/drive train duties. As well as the need for money to do some of the more exacting work on a damaged piston and cylinder and other odds and ends. Donations and underwriters are welcome.

We appreciate all interest in this restoration project, pro and con. Of course the negative vibes eat at you from time to time, especially when you're not in a position to rebut, but we will not wander from our course.

The RMLI inherited Engine #39 in 1990, and since then we have successfully secured $800,000.00 in grant funding and are now well on our way to bringing that project home. We now own property in Riverhead to display and operate our rolling stock and we have a long range plan to develop that property with a turntable, modern shop and exhibit hall. We continue to successfully operate two plants, the Restoration Site in Riverhead and our Museum Site in Greenport. We collaborate with our sister museum, the New York Transit Museum and will be hosting their "Many Hands" exhibit at Greenport in 2007. All of this with a roster of some two-hundred-eighty dues paying members from around the country, eighty of them active workers at the Museum, and no paid staff!

I personally like to think of RMLI as the "Little Museum That Could," and we do. Engine #39 will be restored, patience and perseverance are key, as with all worthwhile endeavors.

Thank you, and a Happy, Healthy, Wonderful Thanksgiving to all,
de Don n2qhvRMLI

Mr. Fisher,

Is there any information about the boiler work that can be disclosed? Do you have an effective publicist or writer among the staff or volunteers of RMLI?

The reason I ask is that donors are often more willing to come forward if you can provide them with information - a sense of what you've accomplished so far on a project, where you see it going, and where the money you've already got came from. This can be as simple as a cheap pamphlet or brochure for small donors, or a formal letter for somewhat larger contributions. Bigger donations, of course, usually require some in-person pampering and a polished show.

But, for regular, grassroots fundraising, do you all (a) have enough information to share to inspire confidence in your project, (b) a business plan for the same reason, and (c) someone who is willing to pull it all together? Does the organization have an organized fundraising strategy?

I'd like to hear more about this end of the project. I might even be willing to help out. I look forward to hearing from you, and I commend RMLI for the fine work that it does.

Best regards,
David A. Vago

Museum Development Coordinator
Historic Beverly Preservation, Inc.
Beverly, WV 26253

I haven't been following the LIRR 39 project, but I wish them all the best - after all, the tender might say Long Island, but she was built in Altoona, which makes her a Pennsy engine at heart.

Maybe the part of the reason they're keeping quiet is because of all the "experts" chiming in on the PRR 1361 project? I certainly wouldn't blame them.

Has MTA or LIRR management given any indication as to whether or not they'll let either of the LIRR steamers run on home rails one day?

Good morning Forum Members,

Thank you for your interest in Engine 39.

Dave, I agree that frequent reports on the technical restoration of the locomotive may attract underwriters based upon ongoing success. I also have to agree with pennsy3750, detailed posts on Internet Forums seem to bring out the best and the worst in us. We've all had our heads handed to us at one time or another and that experience has influenced the Museum Board and the County of Suffolk.

To that end, I'll e-mail you and look forward to our correspondence.

pennsy3750, #39 certainly is a product of the Pennsylvania Railroad Altoona Shops and her heart and soul is in the rolling hills of Pennsylvania. After getting involved in this part of the Museum's projects, my son and I made the pilgrimage to Altoona and walked the Juniata Shop floors, hallowed ground for me friend.

As to MTA/LIRR permission to run on the mainline, that is work to be approached as we get closer to completion on the Engine proper. Obviously #39 ran those rails successfully for many, many years. In the Twenty-first Century the Devil will be in the details, the gauge of track certainly has not changed! Again I am optimistic.

de Don,
n2qhvRMLI

The tracks between Greenport and Riverhead are not what you cal overly busy.

Last time I saw a schedule there was one train out in the morning and the same one coming back later in the day. Most of the schedule was held down with buses.

I have also heard that the museum needs to install their turntable in Riverhead and overhaul the one in Greenport to run trains.

This from a railroad management that must be one of the world champions at push pull operations!

But I hope to ride steam on the old main line of the railroad that I grew up with.

Ted Miles