SOO 2719 On the Move

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:39 pm

The Soo replaced a lot of the main drivers on these engines with disk drivers in the years around WWII. They must have had problems with the originals cracking. Most were LFM disk drivers, but this engine got Boxpok (box-spoke), which was a trade name owned by General Steel Castings Corp.

The LFM drivers have evenly sized wedge shaped holes.

Howard P. · **Posted:** Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:51 pm

Dennis, you have the advantage here-- probably having been close enough to 2719 to see the GSC crest in the castings!!

It would be wonderful to see the two Soo engines performing on the North Shore. A photographer's weekend or two with 1003 and 2719 would be total sell-outs. Might even attract a stray New Yorker or two.... (have to go watch my wife's "Fargo" DVD a few times again, though).

Don C. · **Posted:** Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:31 pm

Why not make a "long" three-day weekend on Labor Day or Memorial Day? You could operate an inbound trip on Saturday from Minneapolis to Duluth with #261 and her train, spend Sunday on the Northshore Scenic with the two Soo engines and run back to Minneapolis on Monday with #261.

You don't need lubrication for the cylinders when the piston rods have been cut...... My source tells me they were torched for the move as they were unable to get the main rods down.

Don C.

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6468

Don C. wrote:

Why not make a "long" three-day weekend on Labor Day or Memorial Day? You could operate an inbound trip on Saturday from Minneapolis to Duluth with #261 and her train, spend Sunday on the Northshore Scenic with the two Soo engines and run back to Minneapolis on Monday with #261.

Don -

What you have described above is somewhat similar to a couple of rather famous late steam era 3-day holiday weekend trips actually run out of Chicago. Forthwith:

First Day - Chicago, Burlington & Quincy 4-8-4 #5618 (Chicago-St. Paul)

Overnight train - Northern Pacific (St. Paul-Duluth)

Second Day - Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range 2-8-8-4 #222 (Duluth circle trip)

Overnight train - Northern Pacific (Duluth-St. Paul)

Third Day- Chicago, Burlington & Quincy 4-8-4 #5618 (St. Paul-Chicago)

The NP train was a regularly scheduled overnight train that covered the 174 miles between the two points doing various head end work along the way and with the equipment from Chicago added to the regular consist. The particular locomotives listed above were for a 1958 trip, but there was another trip in 1962 using CB&Q 4-8-4 #5632 and DM&IR 2-10-2 #514 for the various legs. There may have been other runs besides these two, but these are the two I rode.

I suggest that you might consider using Milwaukee Road #261 from Chicago for the First and Third Days, and the Soo Line engine (or engines) for the trip out of Duluth letting Amtrak forward the train overnight between the Twin Cities and Duluth. Of course, this assumes that the 261 is up to the task that the Burlington O5 Northern's handled rather handily, without any diesel help I might add. There are other ways of doing such a trip. Let your imagination be your guide!

You don't need lubrication for the cylinders when the piston rods have been cut...... My source tells me they were torched for the move as they were unable to get the main rods down.

Not paticularly happy to hear this part!

Les

Don C.

jd johnson · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:50 am **Posts:** 399

Don,

I would think that the Chippawaw group would not have allowed the rods to be cut. They may have removed the pistons and rods which is common for a move like this.

This group has so much sweat and tears in this project to let the rods to be cut. If I remember correctly, they had some major hurdles to overcome including casting a new set of drive wheels from scratch.

Just my opinion,

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

Don C. · **Posted:** Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:40 pm

Les,
I was thinking something a little more reserved and less expensive. 261 would be up to the task if called to make the trip, though.

JD, I think the information will eventually come out that they couldn't get the pistons out. I was dismayed and shocked to hear about the "alternative" action.

Don C.

John Bohon · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 pm **Posts:** 625

With all the steam experts that have worked on this locomotive I find it hard to believe they could not have found someone to help them get the pistons out rather than cut the rods. Did they get the valve stems apart or did they cut those too?

John Bohon

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:37 pm

If this is true, it must certainly be a bad case of sour grapes. The Locomotive and Tower Preservation Society certainly had more than enough time to remove the pistons, heck, the engine has been sitting idle for over two years. I just looked back at the series of photos I took in the Altoona roundhouse in March, 2004, when that organization was getting the engine ready for the then planned move to Montana, but unfortunately, I was concentrating on documenting the Worthington SCA-2 feedwater heater the engine carries on the pilot deck, and I don’t have a shot of the crosshead area. I will say that in March of ’04 the piston head covers were still in place. I think I would have noticed if the pistons had been pulled, but maybe not. The thinking at the time may have been that this was going to be a flatcar load. Indeed, I’m rather surprised to see it going on its own wheels.

I’ve also checked back with Dave Voss, who took the photo I posted the link to. All he can say is that the engine wasn’t puffing and blowing, so the pistons aren’t moving. His photo isn’t clear enough to see the piston rod, or lack thereof, only that the rod socket on the crosshead is very rusty, but that would also be the case if a heat-‘n-beat job was required to get the piston rod out. He did say that someone seemed to be in attendance, oiling around every time the engine stopped, and the engine does have mechanical lubricators.

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:31 am

I really hate when rumors start flying on these web boards; they do no one any good whatsoever. Therefore, I spent some time looking into this piston rod story. Here’s the report form someone who has seen the engine today:

“Hello Guys-
2719 is still in Adams as of 3:00 today. It is on the house track, near the
yard office. It was in perfect sun today, and I got some nice photos of it.

Both of the pistons are taken out, rather than cut. The area where the piston
enters the cylinder is covered by a special metal cover.

I will post the photos in the SooLineHistory files under 2719 in Adams

Philip Martin”

Phil did post the photos, however, since the SooLineHistory files area is not accessible to non-members, I can’t post the link (I can, but it won’t take you there). I will say that Phil posted a photo of the right side crosshead, and it shows the piston rod cleanly gone from the socket on the crosshead, and an aluminum plate bolted over the packing gland. The valve stem is also gone, with something stuffed in its packing gland to keep the dirt out. Anyone who wants to view this photo for himself is invited to go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SooLineHistory/

Just join the group and go to the files area to view the photos.

wesp · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:12 pm

With the pistons out, what is happening with operation of the rods when the locomotive is underway? What are they connected to if the piston is out?

Wesley

John Bohon · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 pm **Posts:** 625

I certainly hope the report of the piston rods and valve stems properly removed is correct. I can see no reason under the circumstance to cut the rods.

The rods are basically free wheeling with the pistons and valves removed. The main rod is in the crosshead which is running as usual in the guides. The valve stem guides are also running in the usual manner without the valve stems attached. The reason for moving the engine this way is to increase the speed of the movement. With the main rods removed the engine is out of balance and would be restricted to about 20 mph. With the rods up the wheels are balanced and the movement can take place at higher speeds.

John Bohon

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:12 pm

UP is allowing 40 MPH. I don't know what CN will hold it to on the run over their track (which I believe is UP trackage rights).

gmray · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am **Posts:** 382

I am pleased to add the following on behalf of Steam Operations Corporation -

"Steam Operations Corporation has been retained by the Locomotive & Tower Preservation Fund, operators of the 2719, to provide telephone consulting services for issues related to the dead in tow movement. Please support the groups efforts by donations or ticket purchase for the excursions as the program develops."

This is from Scott Lindsay, President of Steam Operations Corporation

May you all have a Merry Christmas!

Don C. · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:11 pm

I was in Duluth this past weekend (June 2 and 3) and a friend took the following digital photos for me. Can you guess what they are and who/what they belong to?

Don C.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kFhnRrMNf1 ... ns%203.bmp

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kFhnRogDFb ... istons.bmp

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kFhnRtRHp2 ... ns%202.bmp

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kFhnRsXzC1 ... 19%204.bmp

Joshua K. Blay · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:01 pm

Can you say "cut" ?

PS- Don, I apologize about my comments regarding 261 this past weekend, I wish nothing but success to the 261 and its dedicated crew and volunteers.

Joshua

SOO 2719 On the Move

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