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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 620
Location: Albany, Georgia
Here's what I typed up in the wee hours of this morning, but never had a chance to post until now. I wanted to check a couple of facts first. Most of what I present here has been addressed in other responses, but just for the record:

*******
Actually, the connecting rods between the main and No. 3 drivers on each side were removed from 107 by the NS crew in Albany after S&A 750 broke a pin on a break-in run out of (or back to) Irondale back in 1983, I believe it was. Both sides were swapped out, not just one side.

GN 107 (FEC 88) is the second oldest or the extant FEC pacifics, being bult in 1911, the year after S&A 750 (FEC 80) was built. All 5 of the extant FEC pacifics (Nos. 80, 88, 113, 148 and 153) were built to the same basic specifications, so the center-to-center axle dimensions would be the same. Since 107 was on static display with no forseeable operating future, she became the logical rod donor. Interestingly, 107 had only been at Thronateeska Heritage Center for a bit over 2 years. She was donated to the museum by the City of Albany in 1979, and was moved from Tift Park, her home since approximately 1957, to her new home at the museum in December 1980.

It was the pin on the No. 3 driver, left side, of 750 that broke. I am sure there was mention of it in TRAINS magazine soon after it happened. Maybe someone can verify this. (This now confirmed by JAC's excellent photo.) When the rear pin on 750 broke, the inner "ear" on the front end of the rod (where it connected to the rear of the No. 1-to-Main connecting rod) was cracked. The crack is very apparent. I have seen no cracks on the right-side rod.

It looks like the rear ends (butts) of the main rods were ground down for clearance to remove the connecting rods, since the engine was static and could not be moved at the time the rods were swapped out. Thronateeska Heritage Center got no apparent compensation for the swap.

The current restoration actually began in February 2002, and has slowed down considerably in the last year. However, at this point, all that remains to be done (ha, ha) is finishing the drawings for a new jacket and getting it cut, finishing the mostly wood (yes, wood) cab replica, and installing those so the major plumbing can be reinstalled and the cab appliances installed. What was left of the original jacketing was so badly corroded that most of it was disposed along with the asbestos when it was abated in August 2002 after Dave Lathrop and I did the bulk of the deconstruction earlier that year. There was no hope of salvaging any of it to be used as a pattern.

Of course, there are many small items on the "punch list" of things yet to be done, such as painting the tires, painting the front of the smokebox and some of the larger appliances (power reverser, main air reservoir) and some smaller stuff.

The time frame for completion is June 2007. Then I get to move to the ACL RPO behind the locomotive seen in the photo. Purple and silver, anyone?

*******
Anyway, Dave, in his always modest manner, understated his involvement with 107, and his comments regarding the condition of 107 are based on his personal evaluation and are "spot-on". We made a thorough evaluation of 107's mechanical condition to see if there would be any possibility of reviving her. That was budgeted as part of the restoration cost. I was quite dissappointed to find out just how bad 107's condition actually was, even though I had crawled on and under the machine for several years before the money came available to begin the on-going restoration. We always hope for the best, I suppose. Even so, everything that has been done in restoring 107 has been an improvement toward backdating her to her 1931 appearance when new to the Georgia Northern.

In response to the inquiry about the other locomotives that would be a better prospect for restoring to operation, first, there are three other Pidcock Lines locomotives displayed in the area. The already mentioned 2-8-2's Albany & Northern 9 (in Camilla, GA) and Georgia, Ashburn, Sylvester & Camilla 100 (in Sylvester) are two. Not mentioned, and probably the one in best mechanical condition, is 2-8-2 Georgia Northern 105 in Moultrie. If I had my pick, I'd love to see GAS&C 100 restored to operation, but GN 105 is bigger and would be better able to haul a SAM Shortline-sized excursion with less strain. It would take thorough evaluations of both to make the better choice.

In Macon were CofGA 509, the former Macon shop switcher "Maude" (0-6-0T) and an industrial saddle tanker (0-4-0T, I think). Maude was moved to the Roundhouse in Savannah, and so was the 0-4-0T, I believe. CofGA 509 still rests in Central City Park, no longer under cover after the shed that protected it for many years was damaged in severe weather and was torn down by the city. There are some actions being taken locally to remove 509 from the park and hopefully restore to operation, but nothing firm as of yet. I'll post anything that I can if any news comes up.

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Stephen S. Syfrett
Albany, GA


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 Post subject: Re: GCRRM FEC 113, and FEC 253
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 620
Location: Albany, Georgia
Les,

I was in Miami last September (2006) and the GCRRM had moved FEC 113 to the far end of the "yard", out in the weather. Pieces of the locomotive are staged in an area not too far from the engine, but every year runs the risk of a "cleanup" that could see parts disappear. Who knows what has already been lost. I could send you some photos if interested.

The FEC 253 group continues to work toward completion of the big switcher. However, the FEC 253 group and the current GCRRM management apparently do not get along, so the possibility of seeing 253 operate at GCRRM is about nil. The GCRRM museum director left a couple of months ago. I know he was frustrated.

GCRRM moved to diesel-only operation long ago, well before Hurricane Andrew wiped them out in 1992. The monetary "windfall" from the hurricane damage has resulted in acquisition of a couple of E-8/9s and a GP-7. The E's are painted (1) CB&Q and (2) FEC (not their heritage) while the low-nose, former Army GP-7 is painted in ACL purple and silver. The FEC E was running when I was there. The GP-7 was experiencing some mechanical problem, and the CB&Q E rests at the head of their "silver fleet" train. These new "toys" have relegated the formerly operating locomotives to displays.

In other diesel news at GCRRM, the ACL SW-9 and LIRR RS-3 I owned have been sold and are to be removed from the GCRRM property early this year. The company that purchased my locomotives also has acquired an ALCO S-1 slug that has languished there for many years, and an ALCO RS-1.

I suspect that if an offer were made for FEC 113 by a reputable organization, she could be had. As far as I can tell, they have no plans to do anything with her, so she will sit and rot if not moved away from the museum. Whether she could be restored to operation is anybody's guess. My 2 cents worth.

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Albany, GA


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Stephen S. Syfrett wrote:
In Macon were CofGA 509, the former Macon shop switcher "Maude" (0-6-0T) and an industrial saddle tanker (0-4-0T, I think). Maude was moved to the Roundhouse in Savannah, and so was the 0-4-0T, I believe.


The 0-4-0T is in fact little GOAT, AKA Georgia Power 30, AKA Hardaway Contracting something. Chip Koplin of Macon Iron and Paper Stock Co, a scrapper, obtained both these locomotives and didn't cut them up. When approached for a donation of Old Maude to the fledgeling Roundhouse Railroad Museum in Savannah, Chip forced the museum to take both, and then paid the cost of delivering them. Thanks for everything, Chip, and know that you have saved up a couple lifetimes worth of good karma in the process.

GOAT was restored to operation very inexpensively after decades of rusting outdoors - the cost was 45K, including equipping the shop to do it in, which cost more than the engine - several years ago. She has since been rebuilt and backdated to her pre-Georgia heritage appearance, and negating all the historic changes made by Georgia Power, at very high cost ($890K last I heard), this time starting with a working engine and an equipped shop. The work is, of course, beautifully done, as an antique restorer would handle fine artwork for a museum. I'd be scared to get it dirty or scratch the paint.

Ironically, these changes were being made just as Savannah Electric was being absorbed by Georgia Power, and seeking ways in which to visibly become good local corporate citizens. Destroying their history probably wasn't a good approach to asking them to fund the project.

Of course, I am sure there is a very rational set of reasons why this all makes very good sense and in no way implies any shortsightedness or lack of calculation, strategic planning, foresight, resource allocation management, irreversable destruction of historic fabric, etc that I am simply too ignorant to comprehend. Guess I will have to read more modern management books.

dave

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 620
Location: Albany, Georgia
I had a feeling GA Power 30 was the same 0-4-0T, but couldn't put my hands on anything at the time to confirm. Figured you would know, Dave.

The rebuilding of GOAT/GA Power 30 at that cost would seem to raise many questions. I have heard a similar cost, I still have not figured out why a brand new cab had to be fabricated when the old one was in fine condition, basically needing only removal of the oil bunker for coal space. And in this age of environmental concerns and rising costs I still have not figured out wht it was converted from an oil burner to a coal burner, creating another waste stream and disposal cost to museum operations. While I understand this was done to take it back to its original fuel source, and I like the smell of coal smoke as much as anybody else who has worked on or spent time around coal burners, it seems to have been money spent where it might have been better spent elsewhere (resource allocation).

I'm not sure reading more modern management books would help you/us understand this any better. As I hear, "another one bites the dust" is an appropriate song regarding roundhouse management.

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Albany, GA


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Yeah, I am amazed I lasted as long as I did. Just too insensitive to be aware of the surrounding political furors and crises du jour, I suppose. Perhaps we should rent a very large hall, and host a meeting of competent people who tried for a while but couldn't deal with CHS and moved to greener pastures.

There's just something about organizations with the initials CHS that creates problems.........

dave

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 948
Quote:
They are identical locomotives. The connecting rods between the main and 3rd drivers on both sides were swapped.



John,

What in the world are all those fellas doin' out on the front of the engine? And what in the world did they do when the running gear failed?

-KL


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:53 pm
Posts: 660
nathansixchime wrote:
John,

What in the world are all those fellas doin' out on the front of the engine? And what in the world did they do when the running gear failed?

-KL



The shop crew came along on the test run as a combination of support and reward (the Southern shop crew rarely went out on the road). From memory, L-R:

Jim Ringphiel
Bob Yuill (sitting)
Bob Saxtan (sitting)
Greg Dodd (kneeling, looking through the ladder)
?
Mark Brainerd

In the cab, I only recognize John Barnett.

After the failure (caused by a cracked pin and a flange greaser), the crew retrieved the errant rods. A crew was called and a diesel was dispatched from Citico Yard to pull the train back to a siding, prepare the loco for towing to Birmingham, and get moving.

This shot was taken as the train was being pulled backwards.

Mark's right - unfortunately, this was Doug's first movement as Master Mechanic. Since this was before digital testers were common, the only way to have found the bad pin would have been to press them all out and inspect them (this one was cracked slightly inside the driver center, invisible otherwise).

JAC


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 Post subject: Re: Georgia Northern 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 948
Quote:
The shop crew came along on the test run as a combination of support and reward (the Southern shop crew rarely went out on the road)....

This shot was taken as the train was being pulled backwards.

Mark's right - unfortunately, this was Doug's first movement as Master Mechanic.

JAC


Man, that's too bad it happened when shop crew was on the road -- but also fortunate that they were there to take care of it ASAP. Talk about being on the job! This must be why they call them the "good old days." ;)

KL


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