Let the record show that NO, I did NOT swipe that door from 4876 on behalf of 4877 in Joisey.

[Yet.]

Parking ANY piece of rolling stock with valuable scrap metals in that particular location is a death sentence. The scrap yard is about 150 yards away.

Les and All,

I have some figures from MRM:

In the eight years that followed the end of steam, ridership tripled.

For the one month that steam returned in May, 1997 (NKP 587), ridership quadrupled vs. other months of May.

Ridership during a month that had Thomas, was 6 times the 'normal' month.

MRM's last regular steam powered ride was 20 years ago.

The increases in over-all ridership can be attributed to the purchase of the former Illinois Central ROW into Monticello in 1987, which was also the last year for steam. Monticello gave the riders a destination, not just a spot to stop and go back in the middle of a field.

Derek

Can you tell us anything about the turntable purchased for this project? What line and location is it coming from and how long is it? This will be the 91st turntable moved for use at a tourist or museum line, unless it comes form the many already moved once and stored "in the weeds" at another operation.

Derek -

Thanks for the info. I think Monticello Railway Museum has possibly the best setup of any museum I have ever been to. The museum complex itself (and its relocated ex-Illinois Central depot) is located next to an Interstate Highway with an exit located RIGHT THERE! The museum trackage runs into "downtown" Monticello, Illinois where the former Wabash depot is located (moved from the old Wabash right-of-way.) Museum trackage also runs the OTHER way out of the museum complex to the town of White Heath. There are wyes at both ends although currently the passenger train running into Monticello does not use them. No trains have yet been scheduled to White Heath due to tie conditions, but MRM has a program to replace bad ties on this section. Motor cars HAVE been run out of the museum to White Heath during events such as the museum's Railroad Days. White Heath was the location of a branch line to Clinton, Illinois and thus has a motor car shed on the property and also the original Illinois Central depot (which is not owned by the museum.)

As for steam, MRM has received the new boiler for its ex-Southern 2-8-0 #401. I understand that the running gear has recently been put back under the engine. Perhaps someone from MRM can give us an update on progress.

Perhaps the one thing lacking at MRM is a former Illinois Terminal interurban. The museum was originally located on the old IT right-of-way between the museum site and White Heath. When the IC track, which parallels the IT r-o-w, was purchased, the IT track basically became a storage track. Unfortunately, the museum does not own any such interurban although some examples do still exist.

Thanks again Derek for the info.

Les

The turntable is a Grand Trunk table from Port Huron.

KL

Can we assume this is the 85' turntable from Port Huron that was stored for years at Mayville, MI by a private owner? No idea when it was moved by him and what line it came from was not stated. If so this will be the second move by this table and the total number moved for preservation stands at an amazing 90. Fourteen have been moved twice so far and this will make 15.

The Michigan Railroads web site lists this as having been a Pere Marquette table, and no other is listed for Port Huron. There is a link to a photo of it at http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Turntables/TurntablesMenu.htm.

thats enough to make a grown man cry.

From what I heard, yes. 578 would fit quit nicely with the collection at VMT. It is a wheel arrangement not represented there, except for a short period on the Scioto Division it spent most of it's service life in Virginia, and was built in Richmond. I'd like to hope that it someday ends up back in Virginia.

Regarding 763's sale, I view it as a very positive development for VMT. While it is a good representative of a design that saw considerable use in Virginia, it's preservation in Roanoke was a result of the 1964 N&W/Wabash/NKP merger. 2700 or one of the other existing C&O 2-8-4's would be much more appropriate to the collection. The fact that VMT is letting it go is, I hope, a first step in developing a mature and focused collections policy that reflects the Museum's mission statement. For far too long, "it's free" has been the determining factor in what has been "preserved" there.

VMT has for a long time suffered from what might be kindly termed as "underwhelming" management, both at the staff and Board level. The museum got off to a great start in the 1970's as a coalition between civic leaders and several rail interest groups. Unfortunately, in the mid 1980's a controversial Executive Director (who later turned out to have falsified credentials) caused a very acrimonious split between the "outside" and "inside" portions of it's board. In the process, the Museum's credibility, at least locally, was dealt a blow that it still suffers from. The museum struggled for 8 years to construct the $2 million dollar pavilion now sheltering part of the collection. Just down the street, the O. Winston Link Museum went from concept to complete in 3 1/2 years, and a new $75 million Art Museum is now under construction with mostly private funding.

The recent "troubles" that the museum suffered may well be a blessing, bringing about much needed change. The new Executive Director has a strong background in both development and politics, and a very good grasp of transportation history. In addition, he served over 20 years on the VMT Board. He has expressed strong sentiments towards focusing the collection on Virginia tranportation history.

If the Museum can successfully generate operating funds in the short term, and not have to use the "Berkshire money" to help keep the doors open, 763's sale can do a great deal of good in the long term. It would go a long way towards covering the costs of relocating the rest of the Va. Scrap Iron & Metal equipment to the museum. (3 of the hopper cars have already been moved.) Assuming that the museum retains 3 of the locomotives, that would give them 6 steam locomotives from the "home" railroad, 3 of which were built in Roanoke. That's a pretty significant collection in anyone's book.

Finally (placing my tongue firmly in cheek and putting on my helmet and nomex suit.....), I'll put in my 2 cents worth about locomotive builders. Around these parts, Roanoke Shops is where they built locomotives. Limas are a type of bean........ :)

Ron,

About the time the Steam Railroading Institute went looking for a turntable, the PM turntable bridge from Port Huron was sold to a private owner for use as a bridge on his farm somewhere in the Thumb. So far as I know this was never done.

The GTW Port Huron turntable bridge was still in place in its pit, although the roundhouse and all tracks leading to the pit have been demolished. The bridge was offered to us cheap by Canac, but we judged it too light and short for our use. It is a through girder design like others on the GTW, with a lenticular-shaped girder and quaint pole pockets at the corners. It showed evidence of having been sloppily shortened to about 85 feet (from 90?), presumably indicating that it was moved from another location on the GTW. It also showed evidence of having been dropped. But all that's fixable with enough welding rod.

A Van Sweringen 2-8-4 is too long for this table without (re)lengthening the bridge to a minimum of 90 feet, but presumably a GTW 4-8-4 will fit just fine - just like in the old days.

Glad to hear about this 91st turntable about to be moved for preservation. Odd that the Michigan Railroads site didn't have it in their listing. In any case does anyone have an image of it to post or that they can point us to?

Does anyone have any idea as to overall condition of 763? Has the jacket and lagging been on the locomotive since it left the NKP? Is the running gear (tires, spring rigging, boxes, shoes, etc.) in decent shape? Firebox and boiler condition? Appliances?

It certainly has been kept up cosmetically. Since it was being considered for service on the Freedom Train in 1974, it must have been in pretty decent condition then.

The jacket and lagging are to my knowledge unchanged except for rust and patches since the engine was placed on display in 1964. I know from firsthand observation that nothing has been done since 1972 except for patching that I put on in 1979 before it's last paint job. The engine is pretty much complete, at least externally, except for the engineer's side injector, which went to the Southern/NS Steam Program in 1978. I'll try to get by the museum this weekend and give her a better visual once over.

While I upload recent pictures of the NKP 763 on display in the Virginia Museum of Transportation, here are a couple of pictures of the NKP 763 shortly after she was repainted in Roanoke VA at the then N&W paint shops. Enjoy these couple of views from 22-July-1966.




These images are part of the N&W archives, which are part of the Virginia Tech Image Base in the University Library.

Very nice shot of the 763.

The 763 is unusual (compared to the 765 for instance) in that it still has its original Franklin Precision power reverse (controlled by a wheel rather than a lever) and a set of roller bearing tender trucks which came from one of the Wheeling 2-8-4's after their merger with the NKP.

The rear-most connecting rods (from the main driver to the 4th driver) also appear to have come from a Wheeling 2-8-4 as they are not the same as those on the 765.

It sure would be neat to see it operate.