> A string on another unrelated board got me
> to thinking.... Is there any such thing as a
> Railway Preservation merit badge in the BSA
> (Boy Scouts, not motorcycles..Girl Scouts,
> Explorer's & c. too for that matter...)?

> If not, it just might be worth the
> preservation community's time to see what it
> would take to start and support one

The relevant badge is the Railroading merit badge. The BSA nearly discontinued it for lack of support recently; only some quick action by the NMRA with the help (I beleive) of Kalmbach Publishing saved it. It would be excellent if all our Museum and volunteer tourist lines would work with their local scout troops to arrange programs to qualify their scouts for the badge.

7002 and 1223 at Strasburg
eledbetter@rypn.org

Dave & Les-

It doesn't just happen with engines either. Our former GTW combine had six window frames left,
two of which didn't collapse into smaller bits in our hands when we tried to remove them. Our car's original number was 1842; later on she was renumbered to 7365. Just about every wooden part that was left on her from GT days had a burned-in number somewhere. For instance, those window frames: of those six here is how the numbers break down:

2 window frames from #1842
1 window frame marked #7365
1 window frame from #1844
2 window frames from #1846

Also, an original door which was recently donated to the restoration cause from a retiree of the Port Huron Car Shops also came from #1844 as well (this was alos marked #7366).

GOD I LOVE WOOD CAR RESTORATION! Its like archaeology, grunt labor, and wood shop 101 all wrapped up in one tight package!

TJ



Port Huron Museum
peremarquette@hotmail.com

> Les, I have rods on our 103 / 403 stamped
> for at least 3 4-6-0s. This was a common
> practice and she probably didn't have all
> her own rods more than a decade after
> leaving Baldwin.

> Dave

Dave: Wow! That IS interesting! Unlike the C&O Kanawha 2-8-4's that we've been talking about (where there were 90 ORIGINAL ones on the Chessie), number 103/403 was originally built by Baldwin in 1905 for a short line (the Stillmore Air Line Railway) and spent most of her active life on the Sylvania Central. In 1954 Central of Georgia had to buy her to provide service over the leased Talbotton Railroad because diesels had proven too heavy for Talbotton's track. The question is; if 103/403 has rods from "at least 3 4-6-0's", what locomotives were they? Sylvania Central was basically a one locomotive railroad if I remember. So they couldn't have come from there. Perhaps they came from other locomotives repaired in the CofG shops when the 103 was sent there for major repairs but if so, other short line (or CofG) locomotives would probably have had to been there at the same time (the reason 2716 and 2789 and the other C&O 2-8-4's had parts from other locomotives is that is was just more convenient for repair crews to "grab any old same part" when making repairs.) So Dave, clue us in please; what other engines parts does 103/403 have?

Thanks.

Les Beckman (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com

> Good friend and fellow railway
> preservationist Jim King shared this with me
> from a modeling group's email list that
> brought a smile to my face. Perhaps this
> winter, whilst giving BC&G 4 her 15-year
> inspection, we'll learn she's actually a
> Southern Railway Pacific! Jim

> From BBC:

> Steam railway enthusiasts spent 28 years
> restoring a historic locomotive -
> and then found it was the wrong one.
> For almost three decades the train buffs
> believed they were working on Great
> Western Railway locomotive number 4983
> Albert Hall.

> But days before the massive restoration job
> was complete, staff at
> Birmingham Railway Museum discovered the
> engine was actually number 4965
> Rood Ashton Hall.

> The Hall class were all built in Swindon
> between 1928 and 1943.

> The museum bought the 4-6-0 mainline
> locomotive from a steam engine
> scrapyard in Barry, South Wales, for £3,000
> in 1970.

> Fund raising and dedication helped restore
> the rusting hulk but as the
> painstaking work neared completion,
> engineers spotted tell-tale signs which
> showed the locomotive was an imposter.

> Many internal components on the engine were
> stamped "4965" - the number of
> Rood Ashton Hall.

> An investigation revealed the Albert Hall
> locomotive was scrapped by British
> Railways at Swindon Works in 1962 and its
> identity, including name and
> number plates, switched to Rood Ashton Hall,
> which was in for repair.

> The Editor of Steam Railway magazine, Robin
> Jones, said: "It a tribute to
> the professionalism of the restoration team
> at the Birmingham Railway
> Museum.

> "They spotted the tell-tale signs which
> indicated that Albert Hall was not
> as it should be.

> "It is remarkable in view of the fact
> that most of them were aged 19 and
> under, and would not have been alive when
> this 'error' occurred at Swindon
> works."

> Museum staff have now nicknamed the engine
> Rood Albert Hall.

Jim: You started this thread with this story about England's Birmingham Railway Museum "discovering" that the engine they were working on was not really the engine they were working on after all! I recall a story of a midwestern museum working on an interurban car thinking it was one car only to discover when removing some layers of paint, that it was a completely different sister car! I am sorry that I don't recall the exact details but perhaps one of our electric friends out there can tell us.

So Jim, keep digging. Maybe ex-BC&G #4 will really turn out to be a Southern Consolidation after all!

Les

midlandblb@cs.com

I had the chance to go to the Birmingham Ry museum in August while on vacation in the UK. I saw Rood Ashton Hall being rebuilt as well as the other 9 locomotives in the shop which were either opperable or undergoing their 10 year overhaul. There are a million lessons to be learned from the British in railroad preservation but as long as we're on the topic of young people like myself let me share what I saw at Birmingham. The vast majority of the volunteers were between the ages of 15 and 40. They were complimented by a few steam heads, which there are still a lot of in Britain since mainline steam ended significantly later there than in the States. While we were there, another one of the museum's Hall class engines was being readied for an excusion the next day. The hostler looked to be about 20 years old and he was accompanied by a crew of teenagers who were greasing, oiling, working in the cab etc, all while the engine was under steam. The minority of older folks provided the organizational leadership, and yes they had their hands dirty too, but the younger people were treated as near equals and allowed to participate in as much as the letter of the law would allow. I compliment those who have written to support the cause for youth involvement, but I have read far too many posts from people trying to explain how young people can't or shouldn't be allowed to be near anything that has a fire or drips hot water. Young people are capable, we are willing to learn, and we want to participate. The debate needs to end over what we can't or shouldn't do. Organizations should be finding out from other organizations such as Birmingham or any of the other preservation groups in Britain how they have become so successful at attracting enthusiastic young volunteers.

jmonty@vt.edu

When UP acquired their E9-B unit from the Portola Railroad Museum for restoration about 10 years ago, they thought that it was originally UP 970B, because of confusion surrounding the Amtrak renumbering of the unit when it was a working locomotive, and after it was converted into a steam generator car. When it was finally torn down at VMW in Paducah for it's rebuilding back into a locomotive, they discovered that the frame was numbered 963B, which is the number it carries today.

kevingillespie@usa.net

Hmmm. Now how can
we get a similar group of nineteen year olds
that dedicated to steam preservation? Hey
Jim, ask Hays if he's got any ideas ;-)

- Hey T.J.,

Actually, you'll never believe what has happened to me in the past few days, I have asked several of my friends at high school if they would maybe even want to see about helping me start a youth volunteer program at Spencer, if ever possible. I had about everyone I asked say yes, which was about 6 or 7 people. How's that for an interesting happenstance? =^)

- on the 604 subject; maybe we'll find a few layers of paint that would signify that she actually did get to the people who she was originally made for- The Mexican Railways!

(Now wouldn't that be something interesting)

Anyways,

Happy Holidays,

Hayes Smith Jr.

TAMR-Steam Locomotive Consultant



nctrans.org
cookiemonster@rrmail.com

> I recall a
> story of a midwestern museum working on an
> interurban car thinking it was one car only
> to discover when removing some layers of
> paint, that it was a completely different
> sister car! I am sorry that I don't recall
> the exact details but perhaps one of our
> electric friends out there can tell us.

That was at Illinois Railway Museum and the cars involved were from The Milwaukee Electric Railway & Light Company.

The car was a fomer parlor car that was first named and then numbered on the TM. Then in 1941 cars were sold to London & Port Stanley Ry in Ontario where they became coaches. Then in 1955 two cars were scrapped and the reamining one aquired by IRM along with a streight coach that had been sold to L&PS.

In 1970 restoration work began on the ex-parlor car. It was recorded as TM 1135 which was recorded as being named MEDNDOTA. But the paint scraping revieled the name MENOMINEE. Further looking at the car and fittings revelaed the number 102 that the MENONMINEE had carried when it was in Aplleton. Surviving company records were checked and no information was found to clear up the mystery.

See CERA Bulletin 112 about TM, pages 492 and 493, published in 1972.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> Hey T.J.-

> Actually, you'll never believe what has
> happened to me in the past few days, I have
> asked several of my friends at high school
> if they would maybe even want to see about
> helping me start a youth volunteer program
> at Spencer, if ever possible. I had about
> everyone I asked say yes, which was about 6
> or 7 people. How's that for an interesting
> happenstance? =^)

Hays-
It just goes to prove what I figured when I first met you; you are one of the hopes for rail preservation in the future. I really think that getting other under 30-somethings involved (man, this almost 27-year-old sees that number getting closer all the time) is part of our job. If we show that it is an interesting and rewarding experience, others are going to get interested as well. It does get a bit harder when you have a younger child/ children; but then again, making a more "family-oriented" atmosphere in volunteering as well as in the museum itself may be yet another thread . ;-)

Keep us updated here on how that project goes; I think we all could learn a lot from your experience with it if it does happen. Also, I haven't forgotten about A&EC print; just trying to get my humble house in order has been taking precedence as of late. I hope to have that sent down to you pretty soon though. Consider it a late Christmas gift ;-)

T.J.



Port Huron Museum

peremarquette@hotmail.com