I applaud VMT for recognizing that the sale would be a better outcome for the engine and the museum. Just like Steamtown trading 2816 to CPR, both recognized that the engine in question would have a better future somewhere else.

Joshua

1218 is city property. It was donated to the city as part of the "deal" that was put together to found the O. Winston Link Museum. It is on loan to VMT for display, like a significant chunk of the collection. (VMT does not "own" any of the steam locomotives currently on display. They are all property of the city or of the NRHS) It is at VMT because there is no covered display area at the Link Museum.

A poorer decision - one which is made by too many museums all too frequently - is to do nothing and let natural processes of decay do their work. This is a sure sign of amateurism at its worst and least effective. How many 1950-60 era, 501C3-chartered junkyards are we all familiar with?

Not to many museums today can afford to properly house and care for the collections acquired back when things were free, movement to the site was cheap and easy, and gasoline cost 18 cents a gallon.

It's now a different world where collections management and deaccessioning whatever possible to make best use of the diminishing resources available in an era of rising costs in ways that directly support the mission - which needs to be well defined - is an indication of a responsibly operated institution. I'd be thrilled to see a massive clearing of house and redistribution of orphan hardware take place, if it strengthens the industry and allows us to produce a better product.

Emotional attatchments to junk, political interference with good business decisions, and other less than rational reactions need to be ingored and discouraged. The very idea that a profitable steam excursion program can support a museum is in itself the basis of a good case for an insanity defense, if you ask me...........or does he propose to convert the museum into a tourist railroad?

dave

I am not an expert in these matters. However, it seems to me that the Virginia Museum of Transportation exists to tell the story of transportation in general and railroading specifically as it relates to the state of Virginia. My assumption over the years is that it had a particular focus on the Norfolk and Western Railway but not exclusively. That's just one outsider's impression after visiting years ago and following it from a distance. It seems to me that the NKP 763 is a bit of stretch from that mission. If I am right, NKP never ran in Virginia and N&W didn't own them until well after steam had been vanquished from the NKP. I don't see a direct connection between the museum and this locomotive.
If I am correct (which I am more than open to correction on any of this), it would not seem all that wrong to divest themselves of an artifact which is outside their scope especially if they are stretched financially. The funds could be used to help artifacts more directly related to their mission statement. What is their mission statement by the way? I went to their one-page website which provided no information outside of hours and directions. Wikipedia didn't help much either?
It would seem to me that NKP 763 would be better served in Ohio where it ran and being owned by an organization which can take care of it. One man's opinion
Scott

Does this mean someone has an 'axe to grind?'

Let me give an interesting reply reguarding this sale.

This locomotive was donated (I believe they originally were given the loco) in order to keep it available to future generations to enjoy. By selling it to a private owner, this takes it away from the community who currently have access to it.

As of right now, the OC are not running any excursions that the public openly. So while they may be planning to restore this loco, the general public whom is the original planned people that the nkp wanted to have access to it will not.

I have no issues with the OC wanting the loco to run. My only point is being the devil's advocate. While I have read and can understand that it will be better to have an engine running and restored, at what cost to the general public for whom this engine was donated will there be by selling to a private owner who right now has no actual plans to run it? I tend to think the OC will eventually get back into running more public excursions, but when? Right now they have a stable of good locos that would be prime candidates for restoration and also other locos that are restored not being ran. Yes, they are railfan friendly. How does the general public get to see these locos?

I want to say that it would be great to see the OC get this unit to fix and run it. I can however see why someone would want to see an actual museum get her so we can all enjoy her. Not just a priveledged few.

-Joe

> How does the general public get to see these locos?

The general public will get to see the locomotive every time it runs down the track. The Ohio Central does not operate behind chain link fences with admission fees at the gate.

>... so we can all enjoy her. Not just a priveledged few.

You can't have your cake and eat it in preservation. 501(c)3 groups go to the "privileged few" to get funds, but resent it when the privileged few do a better job at preservation than the so-called experts.

We need more Ohio Centrals. They "get it".

official disclaimer - this is in no ways intended as a slam against the OC - I was the first of the volunteers when that program was started and know and am friends with many of the employees and officers of the railroad; it is a tremendous organization with fantastic people. I only post this to offer an objective view to my fellow railfans.



The problem with this is it doesn't get the bills paid. Luckily the Ohio Central has enough revenue coming in through freight operations to pay for such things but there is a down side. First, only those buying tickets to ride the train provide any revenue for the operation - keeping the locomotive out from "behing chain link fences" gives all a chance to see the locomotive for free which results in $0.00 operating income.

Second - and here's where I really open the can of worms and it's strict;y a business observation - what message does this send to employees of the railroad to see company profits spent on such things rather than going back into the company for things that will make their work environment better; salaries and such.



I don't quite get the first paragraph but as for your last sentence - actually we need more Mr. Jacobson's - God forbid anything happen to him you will probably see the end of steam operations on the Ohio Central. We need to also remember that the Ohio Central stopped operating passenger trains a couple of years ago do to the fear of possible litigation if there was an accident; hence no passenger revenue is being generated.

It would be nice to see a round house built in eastern Ohio to house these locomotives and get them all under cover. Create a seperate entity to manage and operate them - Trainfestival 2004 was a huge success and I was proud to be a part of it. If this program was to be reborn and the people behind it's success were again a part of it - future endeavors could lead to it becoming the premier event of the nation.

Just a terrible shame we live in a sue happy nantion of people who want something for nothing and the threat of being sued for millions is a part of doing business.

> The problem with this is it doesn't get the bills paid. Luckily the Ohio >Central has enough revenue coming in through freight operations to pay >for such things but there is a down side.

The problem is that you need to move your mind outside of the box it is living in. There is no down side to OC owning and operating this locomotive.

Are you naive enough to think that they are sitting up there in Ohio fantasizing about all the money they are going to make hauling people ? If you are, then you do not know much about the owner or his operation.

Do you think Bennett Levin poured large sums of money into his immaculate E units to enrich himself? Quite the contrary, he is enriching everyone who sees his train running. People in this generation know what it was like when EMD passenger locomotives were commonly seen. Also, when he does operate his train, it is in a benevolent manner.

You will never see any of the locomotives at VRM operate at VRM. If you want to see what rusting steel looks like, go to a scrapyard. It won't cost you anything to get in.

I wasn't trying to flame anyone my point was only to present things in an objective view looking at things from the business stand point.

I also wasn't trying to make a point for VRM or the OC. Sounds like you've got an axe to grind, but I don't think it's with me. Now, before you get your knickers in a twist again. . .



. . . OK, now I'm ready for your next post.

> I wasn't trying to flame anyone
Nobody said anything about flaming anyone.

>my point was only to present things in an objective view
Saying that there is a down side to private ownership and operation of the locomotive is not being objective.

>looking at things from the business stand point.
The notion that anyone,private or public, is involved in preservation from a business standpoint is not being objective, either. It is done for personal, sentimental and nostalgic motives. All 501(c)3 groups rely on the generosity of the private sector and the fact that the IRS allows those generous private sector companies and individuals to deduct their generosity once every year in April is the primary reason non-profits can exist.

That is an objective point of view.

And yes, Regis, that is my final answer.

This is irrelevant in regards as it can be applied to darn near any situation, anywhere in the world, and especialy within the railroad preservation community. "Why restore this E8 when we can paint this boxcar? Why run this steam locomotive when it's easier to stick it in a park? Why volunteer rebuilding a caboose when I could be doing housework?"

when museums or railroad groups get federal funding, a similar question can be raised,.."Why should we give you foamers this money when we can use it to repave a highway?"

Employment within a company doesn't promise a democratic say in how its run. If the steam business upsets employees up because they believe they could be getting better salaries if it didn't exist, then the job is theirs to take or leave, or they could just ask the boss how the company's money is spent--but is it any of their business?

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=539293

Something to keep in mind is that the freight side and mechanical operations side have financed a good amount of "Tuscan Red Sin".

Although Juniata Terminal is much smaller in scale than the Ohio Central there is a lot of comanality in the "Heritage Fleet" operaton. It still takes a certain kind of managment commitment/sickness to invest or piss away the profit on something that is worse than a bottomless pit and a magnet for liability....But it sure is a lot of fun to be around.

EBL

I hope that this transaction isn't aborted by petty local politics??? Seems to me that 763 has a much brighter future in Mr. Jacobsons stable than it ever would have had as part of the VMT operation.
I too applaud the new management team at VMT and wish them well as they work to overcome years of questionable management. Selling this piece which has little to do with their mission is a good start.
Double headed Berks anyone???
Ross Rowland

Ross, if it weren't for petty local politics, Roanoke would be right up there with Strasburg, Sacramento, Union, Chattanooga, and Spencer by now. I'm 100% behind the sale as long as the money goes back into collections and isn't wasted on needless debt or badly managed operations. Around here, I've learned to never count on something until after it happens.