Hello all,

I came across this photo of 4 passenger cars in Homestead, PA.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=180811&PHPSESSID=dd31754c6925c3

Two look to be former New Haven 8600 series coaches - does anybody here have information on the other two? Who is their current owner? A report on the Baltimore & Ohio discussion group states that these cars are heading for scrap? Is this so?

The caption states that the chop-nose GP-7 that was in McKeesport near the roundhouse there was scrapped - was that the unit that retained its Western Maryland "circus" paint?

Finally, what is the status of the roundhouse?

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie

The two ex-NH cars started life as 36-seat parlors. Some were rebuilt by NH in 1964 to 72-seat coaches, with one vestibule (the 8600-series coaches had two vestibules). Some of these 7200-series cars actually made it to Amtrak ownership and service (the vast fleet of 8600s was considered too far gone by Amtrak) and were retired by the late 70s. Two wound up in private ownership (Bill Quattro?) in the Pittsburgh area, and were stored for a while at the neat little B&O Grant Street station in Pittsburgh. In the pic, the first and third cars are NH 7200-series cars.

The 4 cars in the picture look like they are probably some of the cars owned by the Pittsburgh Transportation Museum. If so, these may be some of the cars that were stored for years in McKeesport, PA adjacent to a small roundhouse that, I believe, was part of a steel company at one time. The whole property was in the process of being converted to an industrial park when I was there looking at the cars about 2 1/2 years ago. The roundhouse was close to, but not connected, to live rail. It was being used to store busses owned by the museum but seemed like a great, fairly intact "pocket-sized" facility.

Some of their passenger cars were reportedly scrapped at the McKeesport site a year or two ago (this may have been the same time that the WM geep was scrapped) - possibly to satisfy back storage charges.

I believe the 2nd to the last car in the picture may be one of the "More Power to America", ex CRI&P coaches.

As noted in another message, the cars were property of the Pittsburgh Transportation Museum Soc. That group did have equipment stored at the B&O station in Pittsburgh until that structure was removed in the 1990s. After that these cars, some freight equipment, and ex-WM GP7 5634 were stored on county owned property at the former USS National Works in McKeesport. The geep and most if not all of the freight cars have been scrapped and the four passenger cars shipped out. I am not aware of their destination, perhaps someone else can inform us.

The roundhouse was that of the McKeesport Connecting RR, a little known USS property. While the MKC in theory still exists and operates, all operations for decades have been performed by the Union RR. They still serve a pipe mill that operates a small portion of the National Works. The roundhouse until recently served as shelter for a collection of vintage buses, but those were evicted in 2006 and have settled into a new site north of Pittsburgh. There are supposedly plans to restore the roundhouse for some undefined use as part of the industrial park which encompasses most of the National Works property. There has been no rail connection to the roundhouse for several decades.

Yes, the 5634 did retain WM "circus" colors to the end, altho in later years its principal color was rust. It was heavily vandalized after arrival in McKeesport and was soon beyond economic recovery.

I remember seeing these cars and the site while passing from a very late Capitol Ltd. a few years ago. In addition to being an intact roundhouse, there are also two other C. 1900 industrial buildings that have been redeveloped as offices near by.

I suspect that the site may be targeted for adaptive re-use or outright demolition.

http://www.google.com/maps?q=McKeesport,+PA,+USA&ie=UTF8&z=19&ll=40.354798,-79.853407&spn=0.001568,0.00339&t=k&om=1



Tom Cornillie

Bob Kingman on the B&O list posted the following notes about these cars that confirms what others here have said.

Tom Cornillie

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baltimore_and_Ohio/message/32402


Built as:
New Haven RR 317 "Danbury" 52-seat parlor car (Pullman-Standard 8/48);
Rebuilt to 36-seat parlor car (1949);
Rebuilt to 72-seat coach (1964) renum 7207;
To Penn Central 3197;
To Amtrak 7257, rebuilt to 56-seat coach/12-seat lounge renum 3851
(1973);
To Pittsburgh & Shawmut RR;
To Pennsylvania Transportation Museum 3851

******************************************************************

Built as:
GE More Power to America special (Pullman-Standard 1950);
To Rock Island 354 "Lake Michigan" 72-seat coach, renamed "Chicago";
To Penn Central 3160;
To Amtrak 7256;
To Pittsburgh & Shawmut RR;
To Pennsylvania Transportation Museum 7256

*********************************************************************
Built as:
New Haven RR 322 "Newport" 52-seat parlor car (Pullman-Standard 8/48);
Rebuilt to 36-seat parlor car (1949);
Rebuilt to 72-seat coach (1964) renum 7208;
To Penn Central 3198;
To Amtrak 7258, rebuilt to work car 16756;
To Pittsburgh & Shawmut RR;
To Pennsylvania Transportation Museum

*********************************************************************
The baggage car was numbered 1402. I was unable to determine its
history. Apparently, it was part the PA. Transportation Museum
collection. It did not look like it was ex-PRR, but beyond that I
don't know (ex B&O??).

The Amtrak car (16756) was in rough sharp. The stainless steel below
the windows was missing on one side. Hopefully, someone bought them
and not Joe's Scrap Yard.

What freight cars, and other equipment, did the Pittsburgh Transportation Museum own that have been scrapped?

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie

William Nixon Reports the following about the history of the baggage car:

From: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baltimore_and_Ohio/message/32409

The 1402 is ex-Wabash, built by Bethlehem Steel in the 1920's. Sister car to the 1407, which was the N&W Class J No. 611's tool car on all NS excursion trains through 1994, and which resides in Cumberland on one of the WM Station's platform sidings. Both cars were painted powder blue when in service for Wabash RR, and were stored at Roanoke between the passenger station and the shops during the 1970's. The PTMS acquired the 1402 in 1983 from Empire Detroit Steel's Portsmouth, Ohio plant, where it was a paint shop for sheet metal signs for in-plant use. It was moved on its own wheels to Grant Street Station in October 1983. Last I saw it, it was in McKeesport at the north end of the yard, behind the roundhouse / shop building. It has roller bearing trucks.

- - - -

Tom Cornillie

Further searching on the Pittsburgh Transportation Museum Society turned up a lead to a tourist train they operated out of Meadville over the New York and Lake Erie.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020602080942/erielimited.com/welcome.html

Does anybody have a list of the cars used in this operation?

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie

____________________________________________________________

The WM 5634 was operated by PTMS members while it was in McKeesport, and it was in working order when it was cut up. Traction axle / wheel assemblies were set aside on the ground for resale / salvage.

The rest of it was reduced to flame-cut four-foot length chunks for convenient handling by mobile crane pancake magnet. There was no rust on any prime mover internal component among the four-foot long chunks.

Bruce Manwiller

Hello Tom

Have we gotten a reply on who owns these cars? Our group is looking for a clerestory roofed baggage car to restore/display/run, with our Heavyweight Lounge and sleeper cars which both have clerestory roofs. We are quite familiar with the body lines of the 1407 and would love to give the 1402 a new home! It just so happens I'm in the market for a Heavyweight style Baggage Car and one with local heritage is a bonus! Thanks for sharing all the great information on these cars and this site, the Google Map was a nice addition, very interesting to see the ole round house with the four cars parked nearby on the siding.

I was involved with the organization that operated the "Erie Limited" back in 1997-98 timeframe. As I recall, most of the equipment was owned by the PTMS. IIRC, this included 3 ex-UP coaches in faded armour yellow, a stainless steel ACL coach, a stainless steel B&O coach, a VIA Rail full cafe car and a C&O caboose. Two of the cars were privately owned which included an ex-ATSF lounge car and ex-L&N track geometry car. From what I was told, the PTMS was basically an empty shell of an organization with the exception of one member who took the active roll of handling the equipment and getting it moved up to Meadville.

I know very little about the PTMS other than they had several pieces of equipment in the Pittsburgh area. Recalling this story, I'm curious about their history. Does anyone know what became of the nine pieces of equipment that operated as the Erie Limited? I know the FPA4's made their way back to Gowanda, NY to NY&LE home rails.

Hello all,

I came across a roster for the Pittsburgh Transportation Museum Society that came via Jack Deasy's PV news mail list. Does anybody know if this mail list is still extant?

Here is the list - via a message sent Dec. 8, 2006*:
Updated with cross references from Michael M. Palmieri's execellent roster of Amtrak Cars: http://lrs.railstuff.net/amtrak/

Harry Bechtold owns the following 6 cars:

Seaboard Track Geometry Car 972354, ex L&N 365, nee-Pullman "Mt. Hoffman" 1926

Amtrak HEP Lounge 3108, ex-AMTK 8104 nee-ATSF 1559 Budd 1948

Via 4-8-4 Sleeper 1122 "Excelsior" ex-CN PS 1954

Amtrak Power Car 685 ex-USAX 1954

ACL 10-2-1 Pullman "Vassar College" (reported at Gold Coast Museum)

C&O Caboose 3668



The Pittsburgh Transportation Museum Society owns:

N&W (ex-WAB) Mail Storage 1402, Bethlehem 1927

B&O Coach 3584 PC&MC (Pullman Car and Manufacturing Company) 1930

AMTK 3581 Coach NH 1948/48 PS (American Flyer) [with Amfleet prototype interior]

AMTK 7528 Coach 1948/48 PS

AMTK 7256 Coach CRI&P 1950 PS [nee-GE More Power to America special] - 800478 (Palmieri lists this car as CRI&P Tumcari, CRI&P 356)

AMTK 5602 Coach ACL 203 1939 Budd

AMTK 5685 Coach NYC 1947 Budd

AMTK 4401 Coach UP 1950 PS - 800479

AMTK 4403 (instead of 4470?) Coach UP 1950 PS - 800359

AMTK 4404 Coach UP 1950 PS - 800476

AMTK 4585 Coach UP 1954 ACF (Former "Alpine" section sleeper) - 800477

AMTK 4589 Coach UP 1954 ACF (Former "Alpine" section sleeper) Gutted - fire damage

AMTK 1455/1632 HEP Baggage/Dorm USA 89555 St. Louis Car Co. 1953/54

AMTK 688 Power Car

VIA 426 Lunch Counter Car PS 1954

"PC&MC (what does this abbreviation mean)"-----


Pullman Car & Manufacturing Co. (pre-Pullman-Standard C&M Co.)

Here is a photo of one of the New Haven cars, the Rock Island coach, an undentified car, and what appears to be the Wabash baggage being moved in 2007.

https://railpictures.net/photo/180811/

Can anyone provide an update as to the current/final dispositions of these cars?