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 Post subject: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
The Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley Railway Historical Society, Inc., in partnership with Norfolk Southern's 21st Century Steam program and Steamtown National Historic Site, has announced two mainline steam excursions from Scranton, PA to Binghamton, NY on September 12 & 13, 2015 in honor of the 100th anniversary of the Tunkhannock Viaduct at Nicholson, PA. Passengers will be able to make the full roundtrip to Binghamton, or disembark for events in Nicholson. The trips will feature Nickel Plate Road steam locomotive #765, owned by the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Fort Wayne, IN.

Proceeds from these excursions will contribute to the restoration of Steamtown's Boston & Maine #3713 steam locomotive.

You can read about all the trip partners (ELDCPS and the ARHS among others) and other details in the full press release here: http://www.nps.gov/stea/learn/news/viaduct-centennial-excursion-pr.htm

Tickets go on sale June 30th at Noon online at: http://www.laurellinesspecials.org/


Rob Davis
Co-Chair
Project #3713


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:34 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 907
i am putting this in the 'new' 3713 thread although quoted from the old one;

Quote:
Postby robertjohndavis » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:10 am
Hi friends,

If we could move the firebox technical discussions off to their own thread, we can get back to the topic of this thread: updates on #3713


EDIT -- Becky Morgan has started a thread for this discussion. Let's pursue it there with the detail and interest seen so far. But strictly separate from this thread, or the original one on 3713. I would like to see the individual contributors copy their comments and pictures across to the new thread, too, to give it breadth and depth and make those contributions more directly searchable...

Not to take away anything from 3713 itself, or the organizations that are pursuing that specific restoration. (And specific boiler-tech discussions affecting 3713 directly would be more than interesting...)

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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 124
Location: Upland, CA
I have a question.. I'm sure it was answered many times already, But since I don't come onto this site every day I more than likely missed it.

Here's my question: Is there any estimate as to how much more money is needed to finish 3713?

I'm going to make a donation in the next 2 weeks or so, and while it won't be much, every little bit helps.


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:07 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 480
Location: Canada
Never heard anything further on whether the firebox work was to be redone or not, or whether the thermic syphons were designed and constructed properly. Probably time for a status update to keep us in the loop about where this restoration is at.


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:28 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 723
Rumor has it that a request for submissions to essentially build and install a new firebox,
wrapper sheets, roof sheet and syphons has been issued.

Do not know what organization issued this call.


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
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Location: Canada
If that is true, it's pretty much back to square one for this restoration. I hope that is just a rumour.


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 723
Finderskeepers wrote:
If that is true, it's pretty much back to square one for this restoration. I hope that is just a rumour.


If there are serious problems with the work done so far, then I hope it's NOT a rumor.
Better to start over now than after a lot more time and money has been dumped into it.

Do it right the first time. Or in this case, do it right while you still can.


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3746
Location: Maine
This is a rumor until it's confirmed by someone in authority. Stop dicing their program until you have facts.

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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 723
Richard Glueck wrote:
This is a rumor until it's confirmed by someone in authority. Stop dicing their program until you have facts.


Sir:

Having seen a 10-page Steamtown NHS document on this very issue since my last post, I respectfully reject your assertion.

The emphasis in this project will be on correct design, fabrication and the materials specified with particular emphasis on proper alignment of all pieces when assembled. I read it as confirmation of what has been posted here and elsewhere about "issues" with the fit-up and alignment of the existing new sheets. I noted that the new stuff on it now is to be removed and "disposed of."

It doesn't matter so much "who shot John" as it matters that John has been shot.

Make of that "dicing" what you will.


Last edited by Lincoln Penn on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Document available to share?

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
RYPN community,

An update from the Project #3713 website:

The Steamtown National Historic Site is issuing a solicitation of work for the continued restoration of former Boston & Maine steam locomotive #3713.

Once the bid solicitation process is complete and the work is contracted, look to http://www.project3713.com for official updates on the work being done to return this icon of American railroading to operation.

---------------------

For those interested in supporting #3713 and mainline steam, there are still some tickets left for the Scranton-Binghamton excursions behind #765 on Sept 12 & 13. Remaining tickets vary by day for specific classes of service. I believe there are still first class and dining car tickets left for both days. The chance to eat in a Lackawanna diner on the Lackawanna mainline behind steam is sure to be an incredible experience.

Ticket details may be found at: http://www.laurellinesspecials.org/

All the best,

Rob Davis
Co-Chair
Project #3713
http://www.project3713.com


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3746
Location: Maine
Robert John Davis is an authority, has spoken and I see no proof with regard to a discussion of failed firebox repairs. Please show us some hard copy, stating the firebox job was botched and requires replacement if you're going to continue to "cut up" the program. All I want is some proof, "hard evidence", otherwise it is speculation, that- respectfully -dices (slices, and also makes French Fries).

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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 723
Richard Glueck wrote:
Robert John Davis is an authority, has spoken and I see no proof with regard to a discussion of failed firebox repairs. Please show us some hard copy, stating the firebox job was botched and requires replacement if you're going to continue to "cut up" the program. All I want is some proof, "hard evidence", otherwise it is speculation, that- respectfully -dices (slices, and also makes French Fries).


Richard, why would they want the existing stuff cut out and disposed of and new made and installed???


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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Richard Glueck wrote:
f you're going to continue to "cut up" the program. All I want is some proof, "hard evidence", otherwise it is speculation, that- respectfully -dices (slices, and also makes French Fries).


Richard,

I honestly do not see how simply stating what is in the scope of work is somehow "cutting up" the program, as you repeatedly allege. If anything, it shows a level of maturity by the organizations restoring 3713. They apparently had an independent evaluation of the scope of work required, and realized that some work would have to be re-done. Better to do it now, when you can fund raise, than try to do it later after the locomotive is made operational and has a host of problems associated with a poorly fitted replacement firebox and components.

We are human, even the best-intentioned of us have the ability to make mistakes and we do. Being mature is owning up to this and try to fix past mistakes before they become bigger ones. Pointing out that some previously performed work may have to be re-done is not "cutting up" anyone. While it raises questions about project management and contractor oversight, it shows that there is a serious effort to not only get 3713 operational, but operational for the long term.

Hopefully you can learn from this as your group embarks on a steam locomotive restoration soon.

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 Post subject: Re: B&M #3713 Restoration Thread Part 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
People interested in history and historic preservation generally have this interest because they believe that history, both in the triumphs and missteps, has important lessons to teach us moving forward. This is true regardless of the the subject matter of the history, whether it be a society, a government, a business, or, as in this case, the restoration to operation of a steam locomotive that has been managed for the last twenty years by a non-profit historical society. No history should be considered so "ancient" that it lacks current relevance.

A transparent, non accusatory discussion of the successes and challenges benefits everyone.

While the OP is the current PR person for this effort, it is important to note two issues:

1. This project has had its challenges in the past and the organization managing it has been reticent to divulge particulars. This can be borne out by looking at older 3713 threads on this board and other boards. So people who may have been watching this project closely over the years may be more inclined to press a bit harder for more information.
2. The new Partner Agreement between the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley RHS and the National Park Service, announced recently by the OP, may severely limit what the OP can say publicly. Park Service Director's Orders and the boilerplate Partner Agreement (all available on the NPS website) clearly state that the National Park Service has complete editorial discretion over all public statements by Partner Organizations regarding the Park Service and any joint efforts between the Park Service and the Partner Organization. Even public statements regarding the Partner Organization itself are subject to vetting if they in any way reflect on the Park Service or a joint effort. So, just because the OP is not addressing these firebox issues does not mean they do not exist. It is merely indicative that the Park Service does not want to divulge any details.

As per my contributions to "Part 1" of this discussion, I saw the misalignment between the inner and outer stay bolt holes. Additionally, the stay bolt pattern did not appear fully coincide with the pattern on the stay bolt layout blueprint that was hanging on the side of the firebox at the time. I do not have the expertise to know if either of these observations are of a fatal flaw that warrants scrapping. That is why I posted my questions in the previous thread.


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