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 Post subject: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
Hello folks,
The AC&Y #505 has just been put on the market again this time for a low price of $27k. The broker is Ozark Railcar and the owner is the Texas based Galveston Railway Museum. She is a one of a kind being the only surviving diesel locomotive of the Akron Canton & Youngstown Railroad as well as the last H20-44 roadswitcher built by Fairbanks Morse. #505 has sustained water damage to her traction motors and is currently inoperable requiring heavy repairs. She will need to be moved by flatcar to any final destination.

https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEq ... ocomotives


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 434
Interesting, I was just thinking about this locomotive the other day. Too bad it's not authentic UPRR. I thought incorrectly it was one of the US Army FM diesels from the North Carolina Port Railroad, aka Beaufort & Morehead City RR. Hopefully it finds it's way back to AC&Y territory.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:52 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Back in NE Ohio
There are few things in preservation that I would like to see more than the 505 on display with the last surviving AC&Y caboose (#63) at the Copley, Ohio station (a Pittsburgh, Akron and Western structure, not in it's original location, but on land owned by the village and open to the public on Saturdays as a museum). It is located next to the railroad on State Route 162, west of the Village circle, if you are ever out that way. I have heard of no local interest or funding availability to make that happen, and making the site suitable to display both pieces would require significant landscaping modifications.

Link to museum web page: https://www.copley.oh.us/237/Historical-Society


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 337
Location: western Maryland
"She will need to be moved by flatcar to any final destination".

No, not necessarily.

With a set of dummy trucks and a portable ABD assembly, it can be moved over rails in a consist.

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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 404
"The AC&Y #505 has just been put on the market again this time for a low price of $27k......"

I suspect that asking price would also be very negotiable.


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
PaulWWoodring wrote:
There are few things in preservation that I would like to see more than the 505 on display with the last surviving AC&Y caboose (#63) at the Copley, Ohio station (a Pittsburgh, Akron and Western structure, not in it's original location, but on land owned by the village and open to the public on Saturdays as a museum). It is located next to the railroad on State Route 162, west of the Village circle, if you are ever out that way. I have heard of no local interest or funding availability to make that happen, and making the site suitable to display both pieces would require significant landscaping modifications.

Link to museum web page: https://www.copley.oh.us/237/Historical-Society

I spoke with Copley during the original fundraising effort, they have no interest in the #505 more related to a lack of funding on their part. Space was also an issue but less so than financing. Speaking to local preservation societies in the area they would've loved to have #505 at their organization but once again no one has the money to do so. I can't stress enough Paul how difficult diesel preservation can be. It just doesn't have the same appeal to the general public that steam garners. If I were to go at it again with this one I would need a new advertising approach and honestly I can't think of one.

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:20 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 96
Location: walton, ky
What about Bellevue? It would be close to home.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 573
Location: New Franklin, OH
Topfuel wrote:
"The AC&Y #505 has just been put on the market again this time for a low price of $27k......"

I suspect that asking price would also be very negotiable.

I would hope so considering it was swamped by a 10' storm surge. I don't know if any of the salt water residue was flushed out so that could be a factor to consider. I do agree that Copley Station would be a good place for it but I also understand their reasons for not wanting it.

BTW, other equipment that was stuck in Galveston and suffered the same swamping is for sale on OMR, also.

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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 289
Location: H2O-town, CT
I see scrappers bidding on it.

Salt water isn't anything I'd want to deal with. Does anyone know how high the water actually got with that unit? Even if it reached JUST under the deck it's basically a static display at best, too much wiring and lower components ruined, salt water wicks up easily plus condensation. Even as a static display you'd forever be fighting corrosion more heavily than another unit. Salt has gotten into crevices and between panels and covered components that unless you dunked the unit in fresh water for a bit you'd never have a chance of stabilizing it fully.

I see scrap as it's future, way too much is against it.

This is from someone who's seen fresh and salt water flood vehicles. While no flood is good there's still a significant difference between the two and the corrosion afterwards.


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:12 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 134
MEC_557 wrote:
I see scrappers bidding on it.

Salt water isn't anything I'd want to deal with. Does anyone know how high the water actually got with that unit? Even if it reached JUST under the deck it's basically a static display at best, too much wiring and lower components ruined, salt water wicks up easily plus condensation. Even as a static display you'd forever be fighting corrosion more heavily than another unit. Salt has gotten into crevices and between panels and covered components that unless you dunked the unit in fresh water for a bit you'd never have a chance of stabilizing it fully.

I see scrap as it's future, way too much is against it.

This is from someone who's seen fresh and salt water flood vehicles. While no flood is good there's still a significant difference between the two and the corrosion afterwards.


Well it's good you don't run a scrap yard. It's worth $12,700 at $100.00 a ton. I suspect like many other listings they priced it at twice the scrap price. Add a thousand or two for shipping, auction premiums or fees which are typically 20% of sold price, and at least a thousand in labor and fuel to cut it up.

I have overhauled passenger cars with rust so bad ever time I took a step my foot went through the floor. Rust can be removed by sand blasting or media blasting. If it's good metal it will survive, be painted and will live a long life. If not you will blow a hole through it. In that case you remove the metal and replace it with new metal. Locomotives have thick metal everywhere. Nearly all the main components of a locomotive are rebuilt anyways during a restoration. The only difficult locomotives to overhaul is when you open the engine doors and nothing is there. No wires, no engine, no generator, no gauges. Salt water is the least of your problems.

Check out the restoration of Southern Pacific 9010. Not only was a good portion of the mechanical missing, it is a super rare locomotive with only a handful built. To make things even worse the parts were made over seas.


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:04 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 261
MEC_557 wrote:
Does anyone know how high the water actually got with that unit?


The water was at least 6' over the rails. It wasn't just regular saltwater, either, the storm kicked up all sorts of nastiness and the water was exceptionally corrosive.

MEC_557 wrote:
I see scrap as it's future, way too much is against it.


I agree, I believe the main reason it wasn't already scrapped like the F-units is the rarity.

MEC_557 wrote:
This is from someone who's seen fresh and salt water flood vehicles. While no flood is good there's still a significant difference between the two and the corrosion afterwards.


Many states have laws against reconstructing any flood vehicle due to unseen corrosion and what the long-term effects are on wiring.

It's also been reported elsewhere that a major RR contractor, and other contractors, refused to move one of the passenger cars due to extensive corrosion - they didn't believe the car was structurally sound. Galveston is a bad place for a RR museum, the 'salt air' combined with constant high humidity and semi-tropical climate rusts everything!

CD


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 251
Well....
Scrap value may not be even that high.....it's long/unprepared scrap...the estimate at $12,700 is about right for $.05/pound, which is probably the high end of what a scrapper would offer if they have to cut it up....
Shipping is a different question...I'd bet on $30k easily, weather by flat car or especially on borrowed trucks...and of course, who you're going thru.... A class one RR 's sales dept will hit you for more, special moves, etc....

It all depends on what it's worth to you...


Interestingly, the cars issue with the crane company is likely due to a lack of experience with railcars more than "corrosion".... If the car isn't sagging in the middle, it's unlikely that it will collapse when lifted....unless the company is incompetent....
The center sill of those heavyweight style cars is where the main structural strength is....


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 884
RDC SP 10, flooded at Galveston, was moved back to California and is being restored. I haven't seen any concerns about corrosion for them, though they have decided not to make it operable because of the flooding. https://www.facebook.com/SPRDC10/
https://www.splives.org/wp/

This video describes the damage to the car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ubZ5vCkWM

I don't think AC&Y 505 will slowly disintegrate because it was in salt water, though anything mechanical will need to be gone through.


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 289
Location: H2O-town, CT
If you read SP 10's FB page you'll see the bad, the real bad. Like the non stainless parts rotting like the cut lever bracket that's crumbling with little left to the body, and the lower body seam that's letting go …… from the backside. They are optimistic but they have a LONG uphill battle to save that RDC.

Salt and brine gets into the pores of the metal. Sandblasting and prep only cleans the surface. That metal will be popping and flaking for years to come even under fresh paint as the salt leaches out over time. They even admit mechanically it's done for, components need replacing to consider operational in the future. Even static for now is a big job. Currently they're working on the mold growing in the car.


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 Post subject: Re: AC&Y #505 for sale again
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 261
When I went to Bonneville Salt Flats years ago for the racing, there was some sort of spray that was used to neutralize the effects of the salt. Anybody know what?

eze240 wrote:
Interestingly, the cars issue with the crane company is likely due to a lack of experience with railcars more than "corrosion".... If the car isn't sagging in the middle, it's unlikely that it will collapse when lifted....unless the company is incompetent....
The center sill of those heavyweight style cars is where the main structural strength is....


The contractor that was named is a major RR contractor with decades of experience, the sills were reportedly completely shot.

PMC wrote:
RDC SP 10, flooded at Galveston, was moved back to California and is being restored. I haven't seen any concerns about corrosion for them, though they have decided not to make it operable because of the flooding. https://www.facebook.com/SPRDC10/
https://www.splives.org/wp/

This video describes the damage to the car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ubZ5vCkWM

I don't think AC&Y 505 will slowly disintegrate because it was in salt water, though anything mechanical will need to be gone through.


MEC_557 wrote:
If you read SP 10's FB page you'll see the bad, the real bad. Like the non stainless parts rotting like the cut lever bracket that's crumbling with little left to the body, and the lower body seam that's letting go …… from the backside. They are optimistic but they have a LONG uphill battle to save that RDC.

Salt and brine gets into the pores of the metal. Sandblasting and prep only cleans the surface. That metal will be popping and flaking for years to come even under fresh paint as the salt leaches out over time. They even admit mechanically it's done for, components need replacing to consider operational in the future. Even static for now is a big job. Currently they're working on the mold growing in the car.


Budd cars are nearly entirely 304 stainless steel - generally considered rustproof - and that car still rusted! As much as I'd love to see that F-M rebuilt and operating, it most likely isn't feasible.

CD


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