Our local tourist road's ridership has been way down in recent weeks...is this a trend nationwide right now? I assume because of soaring gas prices and a sluggish economic recovery.

Also does your tourist railroad have a real challenge trying to interest young people and young families to ride the train? Younger folks today never had the train as part of their lives and are not nostalgic for it. It seems like the era of older generations who remember trains are dying off, and they used to frequent our local tourist line all the time. What is the solution? If we don't try something (other than thomas which is a short term fix and fad) we are all doomed to extinction.

I have had the same concern for many years.

We decided to test some new ideas the last couple of years. I own a hotel & gift shop located directly across the street from the C&TSRR in Chama, New Mexico. Our hotel has always been known as a railroad hotel and our guest over 50 years old always was over 90% of our business. Some of what we have tried so far.

I put up Flash intros with upbeat music to my hotel site. We also advertise free internet access on a high speed computer in our up-stairs lobby. My 90% over 50 last year changed to around 70% and looks like it may drop to 60% or lower this year. Grandparents & Parents with kids are another new customer for us. I also put a link to free ChooChoo Sounds. Some of the young ones have mentioned it when they get here.

...............http://www.thehotel.org

The C&TSRR shops site: Flash intro page with upbeat music. We have had E-mails from teenagers asking questions. A couple of young ones are coming out for a week this year to be around the train. Yes they are staying at the hotel with high speed internet access and a flashy intro page on its web site.

................http://www.cumbrestoltecshops.com/

I also have developed a "Kids Only OSIER-LAND" & Engine School "NO Homework" These are on 2 different sites. We have lots of animations, music, games, puzzles & ect. We have a lot of people tell us about things their young ones saw on the site. A couple of teachers are using the sites as part of their history class. They tell me the kids are having a lot of fun and learning at the same time. THIS DOES CREATE AN INTEREST.

Moms, Dads, Grandmas & Grandpas
Not to worry - we don't require ID's with a birthdate to enjoy this section.
Have fun and enjoy.

...............http://www.osier.org/kidsonly/kidsonly.htm

...............http://www.chamachoochoo.com/index.html

I know and agree that the "EYE CANDY" may not be what us "old folks" like. I think trying to get the younger generations interested is more important than what WE like.


roger@thehotel.org

A new idea for 2005

When our season is over this year I plan on trying to make a CD with a lot of the stuff I have on my two different kids sections. I will be giving these free to teachers and ask them to check them out on a computer and to give it to the history teacher at the school they work at as a free teaching aid. I have no idea what age group I am going to try to build this for and any suggestions would be appreciated.

I have discussed this with the executive director of the C&TSRR and he express an interest in helping me out with some new equipment & production costs and he wants them made free to all the schools in New Mexico & Colorado. The C&TSRR is owned by the states of Colorado & New Mexico. He also suggestd we do DVD's

This might be a project numerous tourist railroads might want to do together. If any of you want to do it I will back off and try to think of another project.


roger@thehotel.org

Now you have got it! For years groups I belong to have been moaning about declining and aging membership and I have been saying for years that you have to reach out to youngsters the way THEY want to be reached. They are not interested in reading newsletters or going to a library. Use the internet and computers to interest them.
Keep up the good work, you will succeed.

> I have had the same concern for many years.

> We decided to test some new ideas the last
> couple of years. I own a hotel & gift
> shop located directly across the street from
> the C&TSRR in Chama, New Mexico. Our
> hotel has always been known as a railroad
> hotel and our guest over 50 years old always
> was over 90% of our business. Some of what
> we have tried so far.

> I put up Flash intros with upbeat music to
> my hotel site. We also advertise free
> internet access on a high speed computer in
> our up-stairs lobby. My 90% over 50 last
> year changed to around 70% and looks like it
> may drop to 60% or lower this year.
> Grandparents & Parents with kids are
> another new customer for us. I also put a
> link to free ChooChoo Sounds. Some of the
> young ones have mentioned it when they get
> here.

> ...............http://www.thehotel.org

> The C&TSRR shops site: Flash intro page
> with upbeat music. We have had E-mails from
> teenagers asking questions. A couple of
> young ones are coming out for a week this
> year to be around the train. Yes they are
> staying at the hotel with high speed
> internet access and a flashy intro page on
> its web site.

>
> ................http://www.cumbrestoltecshops.com/

> I also have developed a "Kids Only
> OSIER-LAND" & Engine School
> "NO Homework" These are on 2
> different sites. We have lots of animations,
> music, games, puzzles & ect. We have a
> lot of people tell us about things their
> young ones saw on the site. A couple of
> teachers are using the sites as part of
> their history class. They tell me the kids
> are having a lot of fun and learning at the
> same time. THIS DOES CREATE AN INTEREST.

> Moms, Dads, Grandmas & Grandpas
> Not to worry - we don't require ID's with a
> birthdate to enjoy this section.
> Have fun and enjoy.

>
> ...............http://www.osier.org/kidsonly/kidsonly.htm

>
> ...............http://www.chamachoochoo.com/index.html

> I know and agree that the "EYE
> CANDY" may not be what us "old
> folks" like. I think trying to get the
> younger generations interested is more
> important than what WE like.


Old Time Trains history & stories website
r.l.kennedy@sympatico.ca

Depot Gift Shops

Try to add a new younger generation product every year about your railroad. Make a big deal about the item on your web site to get the young ones interested.

2002 we designed a cartoon t-shirt for the kids about our railroad. This item upset the serious railfans but the younger generation loved it. It was our best seller that year. "Late again on the C&TSRR" with a cartoon engine and engineer.

2003 we had a video made about the C&TSRR. The title and the story were designed to get the attention of the younger generation not the avid rail fan.

2003 season: "A Chama Choo Choo Video"........... "A Narrow Gauge Ghost story" Our train goes thru a ghost town named Sublette and part of the video is about the ghosts at sublette. The video tells a story its not just the train ride.

2004 season: A children's book about the C&TSRR on a CD. "Come with Gnuf-Gnuf, a seven pound, red poodle, as she rides the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad over the rockies and into the stars.

2005 season: Hopefully a free CD for teachers and also for sale to others about the history of our railroad with lots of "EYE CANDY" for the kids. We are also working on the draft for a Children's coloring book about the C&TSRR for the 2005 season.


roger@thehotel.org

> Now you have got it! For years groups I
> belong to have been moaning about declining
> and aging membership and I have been saying
> for years that you have to reach out to
> youngsters the way THEY want to be reached.
> They are not interested in reading
> newsletters or going to a library. Use the
> internet and computers to interest them.

The same thing was happening to me and I just got fed up with the moaning & complaining. I decided after listening to all the talk and nobody willing to do anything about it that I would try to do something. I need to warn you, when you try something new and it concerns trains be ready to get flamed. A lot of the railfans and preservation buffs DO NOT LIKE NEW. The cartoon T-shirt I mentioned in one of my posts caused a uproar. Maybe one day I will post the story about the toilet paper holders I made up out of narrow gauge rail and railroad tie wood & toilet paper with 5 different C&TSRR Engines. These are only 2 of the new idea items that caused me to be FLAMED by the hardcore railfan.

It is nice to hear that someone agrees we need to get the young ones attention and to do that we must do it their way. IMHO: That is the only way the railroads we love will be able to continue to be available.




roger@thehotel.org

You're dealing with a generation raised on Sesame Street. Kids are more oriented to visual and tactile learning. If it's not fun, it's not worth experiencing!
I'm not sure that our hobby won't continue to take a dive in interest. I have my doubts whether Thomas the Tank phenomenon will really make converts to our hobby as kids grow older.

> Our local tourist road's ridership has been
> way down in recent weeks...is this a trend
> nationwide right now? I assume because of
> soaring gas prices and a sluggish economic
> recovery.

> Also does your tourist railroad have a real
> challenge trying to interest young people
> and young families to ride the train?
> Younger folks today never had the train as
> part of their lives and are not nostalgic
> for it. It seems like the era of older
> generations who remember trains are dying
> off, and they used to frequent our local
> tourist line all the time. What is the
> solution? If we don't try something (other
> than thomas which is a short term fix and
> fad) we are all doomed to extinction.

Roger, you bring up some excellent points. All of us older fellows have to understand the power of the computer and the internet today. I will use my 16 son as an example. He never showed any interest in steam or railroads until he was 13. It was a COMPUTER game that got him interested, the Train Simulator!! He then started to ask me about injectors, air pumps, and firing. He now cannot wait to run our l-l/2" scale live steam locomotives. He has had the opportunity to work as a volunteer on the Ohio Central and wants to learn to weld and work with machine tools. Future marketing efforts will have to be geared through computers to reach the young audience that we desperately need. Another example of changing marketing efforts would be Cadillac. They were only appealing to an older market in the past. It seems to be changing when they went to an advertising program with Led Zeppelin music as a background. I am seeing more Cadillacs on the road around here. In a nutshell, we have to think outside of the box if we are to continue a tradition that we all have a great passsion for.

steamfan@crusoe.net

Hey guys, I've been a frequent rypn reader, thought it was about time I start weighing in on stuff. First off, I'm 19 years old, and just finished my freshmen year of college studying mechanical engineering at the University of Pittsburgh.

Thus, I guess I'm one of the "younger generation" we're speaking of here.

It's unfortunate that people of my age don't view the railroad with the same awe as kids once did, but the fact of the matter is it's a lot less visable. Case in point: Class 1's nowadays only get public attention when they derail. Teenagers don't see anything special about the fact that a tourist railroad runs a restored steam locomotive or traverses rare mileage.

I personally wish I had more opportunities to ride the rails, especially with steam (I'm hoping to spend some time volunteering with the Ohio Central this summer).

As far as how to get us involved, I can only offer a few suggestions, let me know what you think.

1.) Get the word out. Lots of times we don't even know whats happening in the railfan world, and most people aren't enthused enough to go looking for it. TV and radio are great ways to reach people, lets take advantage of them. Same with the internet.

2.) Support the young folks. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in another 20 years who's going to be running old # (insert your engine here)? There's plenty of us here, but you gotta know where to find us. And once you do, help us out. Most of us are ready and willing to learn, but you've got to be willing to teach.

3.) Don't underestimate us. My apologies if this sounds like I'm bragging, but I'll use myself as an example. I graduated from high school third in my class, was captain of our cross country and track teams, captain of my high school drumline, and volunteered for a bunch of different organizations. We're out doing a million different things, not just playing video games and messing around with computers. We're not just couch potatoes that are only interested in flashing lights and cool music, we have an interest in history too. Please don't think that the "stereotypical teenager" is what we're all like.

I'm ready to start working to bridge the age gap in railroading, let me know what you guys think we can do, and how we can all pitch in to ensure this hobby will be steaming long past my days.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post!
Tim Botti

tjb231@comcast.net

> I'm ready to start working to bridge the age
> gap in railroading, let me know what you
> guys think we can do, and how we can all
> pitch in to ensure this hobby will be
> steaming long past my days.

So Tim, how do you propose we do that? First let me clarify, I am also one of the younger generation. I'm 22, practically grew up around railroads and museums, I have worked for a local shortline railroad (in diesel maintenance) for the past four years. Just yesterday, a friend of mine (21 years old) and I were making up a train for a special excursion at our local museum, (which will take place this Sunday). After making up this train we were talking to the daily operators, the youngest of which were over 65. This lead me to ask most of them why they come out and volunteer their time at the museum. Invariably, the answer was that they had ridden on or remember watching trains as a kid. Hardly any young people these days have fond memories of trains. The only time any of my friends notice a train is when they are stopped at a crossing, and then all they do is complain. It seems that today, because less people are exposed to trains in their youth that perhaps the same percentage of people choose railroading as a hobby, but that number turns out to be numerically less than it would have been 50 years ago. It seems to me that the answer is to expose more children to trains, in a positive sense. Thomas is one solution, it get the kids in the gate with the promise of seeing the little blue tin can, but them some of them find that real trains (or trolleys if you like) are more interesting, maybe that sticks with them until they are old enough to come out and volunteer on their own. So folks, what else can we do besides, Thomas, and talking about what we are going to do?

ptdrumford@aol.com

> So Tim, how do you propose we do that? First
> let me clarify, I am also one of the younger
> generation. I'm 22, practically grew up
> around railroads and museums, I have worked
> for a local shortline railroad (in diesel
> maintenance) for the past four years. Just
> yesterday, a friend of mine (21 years old)
> and I were making up a train for a special
> excursion at our local museum, (which will
> take place this Sunday). After making up
> this train we were talking to the daily
> operators, the youngest of which were over
> 65. This lead me to ask most of them why
> they come out and volunteer their time at
> the museum. Invariably, the answer was that
> they had ridden on or remember watching
> trains as a kid. Hardly any young people
> these days have fond memories of trains. The
> only time any of my friends notice a train
> is when they are stopped at a crossing, and
> then all they do is complain. It seems that
> today, because less people are exposed to
> trains in their youth that perhaps the same
> percentage of people choose railroading as a
> hobby, but that number turns out to be
> numerically less than it would have been 50
> years ago. It seems to me that the answer is
> to expose more children to trains, in a
> positive sense. Thomas is one solution, it
> get the kids in the gate with the promise of
> seeing the little blue tin can, but them
> some of them find that real trains (or
> trolleys if you like) are more interesting,
> maybe that sticks with them until they are
> old enough to come out and volunteer on
> their own. So folks, what else can we do
> besides, Thomas, and talking about what we
> are going to do?

Jason,

You are exactly right. Thomas is about the best thing we can do at the moment. It attracts young kids, and the "Day Out With Thomas" events put many families who otherwise wouldn't be visiting in coach seats (isn't it Strasburg who calls it Thomas the Bank Engine?). But anyway, we need to do some hardcore brainstorming for other possibilities here. One concept I saw some potential in was the RailCamp (think that was what they called it) that was held at Steamtown for the past few summers. This event is built specifically for teens, and I know that at least one NRHS Chapter (Altoona maybe) actually gave out a couple scholarships to local kids for it. This idea, expanded upon, could be something to look into. Anybody else have any good suggestions?

Best of luck Jason on your shortline ventures, and thanks for your input!

Tim Botti


tjb231@comcast.net

Time for me to jump in. I'm 16 years old and have been railfanning for about ten years or so. I't was mostly my dad that got me in to it, by going on trips railfanning with him and waching video's, after a while the bug bit and as they say the rest is history. Just in the past year my dad and I have started volunteering at a local RR museum. This year i'm looking forward to going to RailCamp '04 located at Steamtown. I think that this is a big step towards rail preservation for the future.

-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

My suggestion to keep the younger generation involved is keep those web sites updated weekly.
I am 28 and have been involved in rail preservations for 10 years and the places that I send money to are the ones that I can see are organized and are active. I also will give my time to organizations near where I am working (I am a Ticketed millwright by trade) I always Look at the website to see who in the area is active
And will best benefit from my talents. If the site is stale I will probably skip stopping by because I donÂ’t like wasting time waiting to find out they want me to cut the lawn or there is no one around with the keys to the shop or to sign me up so I am not in volition of there insurance.
Young Adults today Don't like there time wasted because in todays world spair time is at a premium and thay like to get in work hard and leave.

Just my 2 cents worth
Keep those AlcoÂ’s pre-lubed!


kevinpruden@hotmail.com

> One concept I saw
> some potential in was the RailCamp (think
> that was what they called it) that was held
> at Steamtown for the past few summers. This
> event is built specifically for teens, and I
> know that at least one NRHS Chapter (Altoona
> maybe) actually gave out a couple
> scholarships to local kids for it. This
> idea, expanded upon, could be something to
> look into. Anybody else have any good
> suggestions?

I think that the idea of the RailCamp scholarship is a fantastic idea- had a RailCamp program been available 25 years ago, I'd've jumped at the chance to participate.

I'm going to try to see whether I can float the scholarship idea with a few organizations in my area (SE Michigan) and see whether I can get anyone to go for offering one.

-fm

I am also a young railfan, 17. I grew up riding tourist railroads, before I was 2 I had ridden my first steam train. I was hooked ever since. I frequented many railroads in California but since returning to New York haven't been visiting more than 1 or 2 steam railroads per year, there is little here. The only local steam RR, 1/2 hour away, only operates one day a year and it is apparently very hard to get a job working around her. I have still been active with my hobby on the internet writing railroading articles, but still miss volunteering on an 18" gauge RR back home. If I was there by the time I was 18 I'm sure I would be running steam trains somewhere during summer. I am probably going to stay with a friend next year and for my senior project through summer get a job back in California working with steam since there is nothing here. I am particularly interested with narrow gauge, 3' and 12-24" gauge live steam. I don't have very supportive parents concerning my hobby, they think it takes up too much of my life. I think they are just jealous because they dont really have any hobbies of their own :)
I have met only a few railfans my age and hope that the line of those with high iron in their blood continue to grow. Unfortunately Thomas isn't even on the air in the US anymore. It went from Shining Time Station to a new show on cable without the live action scenes. I still have many of the episodes from 1990-ish on tape. I always thought a good thing would be to do a children-oriented railroad amusement center, a Shining Time Station/Thomas theme park, with a complete replica of the station as seen on the TV show and you could take rides on Thomas all the time. Fujikyu Highland in Japan has already opened a section of its theme park in Japan using steam (or very realistic fake steam) versions of some of the Thomas engines and other rides based on the show. I hope to be a theme park designer after college and have some ideas. There's even a small theme park in Japan called SL Land (SL=steam locomotive)

Keep on steaming!

Thanks and Happy Rails,
Ed Kelley
New York

ON TRACK with Ed Kelley
gtngrr@aol.com